#53 | She Got the Promotion, Built the Influence, Did Brilliant Work - So Why Did Imposter Syndrome Still Say “Not Enough”?

What does it look like when a woman is quietly, consistently, almost accidentally extraordinary (and genuinely the last person in any room to have noticed)?

It looks like Jocelyn Lo, VP Global Brand and Comms for Seedtag.

In less than a year since returning to work after maternity leave, Jocelyn led a full company rebrand, shot a commercial in a closed-down subway station in Georgia, launched an AI product, and was promoted to VP. When someone pointed all of this out to her, her response was: wait, what?

In this conversation, Jocelyn talks about:

• The unspoken rules of corporate life that nobody tells you when you start out, 
• How she coaches her team to present their own work and take up the space they've earned, 
• What it was actually like to return from maternity leave into a promotion she hadn't expected, and 
• The one tool she uses to remind herself of everything she has accomplished on the days when the little voice gets loud.

That tool is A brag folder.

This episode is for every woman who has ever done brilliant work, held everything together, and still gone home wondering if she's really good enough. (Yes, she is)

Key Takeaways

1. The brag folder. A private, honest, running record of everything you have done well, however small. Not a CV, but instead evidence for yourself on the days when you need it most.

2. The visibility question. Can people speak to your work when you are not in the room? If the answer is not a confident yes, that is where your energy goes next — not into doing more work, but into making sure the right people can see what you are already doing.

3. Capability vs capacity. Capacity is the only thing that changes when life gets fuller. Your capability is still exactly where it was. Do not let the little voice confuse the two.

4. The zigzag is the point. There is no straight line for a career path. The sideways moves, the pivots, the unexpected turns — these are not detours. They are the making of you.

5. Start before you are ready. Ask to present your own work. Send the proactive email. Share the idea before it is perfect. The opportunity will not always come to you.

This Week's Trilogy

Wednesday: The Science: Two things Jocelyn said that deserve the research behind them. The neuroscience of capability vs capacity, and the visibility problem — why the most competent people are systematically underrecognised and what the research says about changing that.

Friday: The Song: Jocelyn's anchor track for this week, chosen specifically for a woman who does her best creative work when the beats are right. Plus three quickfire moves to carry into Season One.

Action

If you heard something in this conversation that sounded like someone you know — a colleague, a friend, a woman on your team who is quietly holding everything up and hasn't quite noticed — send it to her.

She doesn't have to stay in the wait, what moment.

You can connect with Jocelyn here

You can connect with Caroline here

New episodes are released every Monday, Wednesday and Friday mornings.

Stuck, simmering, or onto something juicy? I want to hear it. Drop me a line at caroline@inspireyourgenius.com - I read them all.

And here is the Spotify Playlist to accompany UnShakeable Her.

This podcast explores what it really means to lead with confidence in systems that weren't built for you - tackling resilience, imposter syndrome, and credibility while unpacking how boundaries, conflict, and feedback shape the way women in leadership handle pressure, influence, and workplace politics. It also looks at strategic thinking, promotion, decision-making, and visibility, offering honest conversations about how to grow as a leader without losing yourself.

Transcript

Caroline Esterson (00:00)
Hi there, welcome back. I'm Caroline Esterson and this is Little Moves Big Careers. But before the new format begins properly, I wanted to give you something. Last week, I sat down with Jocelyn Lowe, Vice President of Global Brand and Communications at the ad tech firm SeedTag in New York. She's one of the most curious, creative, warm and quietly formidable people I know. And I asked her about her career.

What I didn't know when I pressed record was that she was going to give me almost accidentally in the middle of a conversation about maternity leave, managing teams and the unspoken rules of corporate life, one of the clearest articulations of what the show is actually about.

She'd been back from maternity leave for less than a year. And in that time, she'd led a full company rebrand, shot a commercial in a closed down subway station in Georgia,

launched an AI product and been promoted to VP. And when someone pointed this out to her, she said, wait, what? She hadn't stopped to notice. She is in other words, exactly the woman that this show is for. So thank you, Jocelyn, for your time and honesty. And a first look at the kinds of women and the kinds of conversation that are going to be at the heart of this show. She uses New York as her runway every day.

and she has a brag folder. I think you're gonna love her.

Caroline Esterson (01:46)
Let's start right at the very beginning, Jocelyn. So you studied sociology. Was it always your intention to go into business and particularly into comms where you are now?

Jocelyn (02:00)
⁓ no, I don't know how many people you would ask that they would imagine themselves in advertising tech and would be like, I always knew I wanted to do ad tech. Right. we also might a computer and it's great. ⁓ but I don't know if that many people just came out of college being this is what I wanted to do. ⁓ I had many minds of thoughts and everything in my head when it came to my career. I.

Caroline Esterson (02:08)
you

Jocelyn (02:20)
And somebody who is really into creativity, somebody who loves rising up to a challenge and doing storytelling in many different ways from a visual and also a mindset of like, how do we communicate with other people,

I have thought about many different careers. Anything from being a fashion designer because I love fashion so much. So, unfortunately I don't get to design for the runway. I just use New York as my runway every day to dress up and make myself look So that dream went away early on. And then I studied sociology actually with the mindset of being a lawyer.

Caroline Esterson (02:47)
⁓ perfect.

Jocelyn (02:57)
Yeah,

it was it was a big pivot. But I really thought about being a lawyer at one point, I was you know what, this could be really interesting. So that's kind of why I studied sociology But I also did a minor on business administration And what I started realizing was my

Caroline Esterson (03:11)
Right.

Jocelyn (03:15)
Interests relating to the study of people and then how that actually impacted the way that marketing and business also does things So it just naturally came together for me where I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go into marketing. I feel like it's it's a right decision for me

when I first started out my career, it wasn't like I had one specific lane in marketing. You become a generalist in the beginning. I tried everything marketing operations, digital marketing, influencer marketing at one point, brand marketing, comms, like you mentioned, and even onto the event side of things as well. And so I quickly started realizing it was good to know everything about marketing, but I knew

early on where I wanted to specialize. ⁓ I'm a full brand marketing person. I love, being able to tell a brand's story. I love being able to get people to see the brand in a way that really resonates. That was where it started all coming together for me

And then the sociology side of things really helped because, what better way to do marketing than to really understand the audience that you're going after, right? If you can't connect on that front, then really who are you marketing to? So it just perfectly worked out together. And then what I love is I currently get to be super creative on a lot of things, shooting commercials is another one of my passion. I'm doing a company, which we just launched a rebrand for my current

Caroline Esterson (04:20)
Okay.

Jocelyn (04:37)
company that I'm at right now, SeaTag. ⁓ And being able to lead that and work with my team to develop the emotional side of what a brand can do. That's really what gets me going every morning. I get excited So that's my crazy career trajectory path idea. I mean, I could still pivot to be a lawyer. Who knows at this point? think the AI you can be anything you want to be. So we'll see.

Caroline Esterson (04:57)
You ⁓

But that's the thing is it nothing's fixed. I think when you start in a career, it's about trying things. What do you like? What don't you like? You start to understand yourself. And I think that's one of the most important jobs that you have to do actually when you're when you first start out.

Jocelyn (05:16)
Yeah, I think that's such a good point, right? Because you can go to school and think this is what I wanna do. And then you quickly realize maybe this doesn't make sense for me. Or you have this dream and you realize maybe this isn't really where...

I'm best fit for, or my skill sets aren't in this. And you have to have that realization sometimes, right? Because If you can marry your passion with your career, you are one of the luckiest people on this earth. So that's where I always say, don't be scared to test things out. if you're in school, think about what's best fit for you. But

You have to get that real life experience to be able to understand what is it more than just the career description. What does the job actually entail and where can I go with that?

I love that you mentioned is there's no straight line for a career path. You can move across, you can do a zigzag if you wanted to. I feel like that's the beauty of a career, right? It's the journey, not so much where are you getting to right now. It's the journey that got you there.

Caroline Esterson (06:17)
Absolutely. I think organizations are more interested in that journey as well. It's what are the things that you're doing? How do they make you the person that you are? And do you understand the person that you are? you were talking about your creativity and you love storytelling and the emotional side of telling the story with brands. I think that's just as important in your career as well, isn't it? it's not about saying I did this and I did that and I did the other. It's about this is the difference that I made. This is how I touched this.

things

and this is who I am and I think the more that we can get in tune with who we are and where our skills are the more we're likely to find our passion.

Jocelyn (06:56)
100%. Yep.

Caroline Esterson (06:58)
You're very creative Jocelyn, that was something that is very apparent all the way through you scratch at things You want to deepen your understanding Where did that curiosity come from?

Jocelyn (07:10)
Oh, I am very curious. I love to learn and know things, even if it's something that I don't need to be an expert in, just because I feel like any form of understanding or knowledge helps you to succeed and to do more. So I think early on as a kid, I definitely got in trouble a lot for talking. My mom would always tell me, she's like, your teacher called us in because, it's not because you're not doing well in school, it's not because you're doing anything wrong, it's just that you

love to talk. I was always so curious to know everything. It's like if someone shared something with me, I wouldn't just leave it at like, OK, that's nice. I was always that one person who would be tell me more about that. OK, I'm really, really intrigued by that. Like, how did you like tell me more about your vacation? Don't just say like I had a good time. Like what made it a good time?

I love doing that because you start building that connection. And when you're curious, especially about a topic or about a person or about a story that's being exchanged.

It makes people also feel like what they're sharing is very important and valuable to you. And as a manager, that connection is so key

Like, don't be scared to ask questions. asking questions actually makes people also stronger at what they're developing to. So, if someone's presenting something to you, maybe it's an idea, maybe it's a project. The idea might not be fully fleshed out or perfect, But when you start asking those questions, right, you're building that collaboration that's naturally happening. And when that happens, that idea...

gets better, right? Or that idea grows. those are the type of interactions that really drive things forward

Caroline Esterson (08:43)
You've mentioned three C words that think are so important to pull together. Curiosity, connection and collaboration.

I think that more than ever, organizations are craving those skills. And I think actually individuals are craving them as well.

Jocelyn (08:59)
I think

when you feel like you're leaning in, you're investing, invested in someone's story, it makes them feel good and it makes them excited.

Caroline Esterson (09:06)
So Justlyn, let's just go back a step. If you think about what you expected from your career when you first set out, are there things that you thought were true then that you found out not to be true now? Any unspoken rules?

Jocelyn (09:20)
Yeah, early on I thought getting my tasks done and, going above and beyond on my work would be enough to get me, wherever I wanted to be in the future, And you quickly realize that's not the case at all. you're producing great work. You are, producing more work than a current colleague of yours. But why is that colleague the one that's getting recognized or getting that promotion over you? you start questioning.

What's causing me not to shine It becomes more about

How are you seen? What's the brand that you built for yourself? Can people speak to your work when you're not in the room? seen at that level of thinking big, thinking strategic? It's not just about the task itself. I do believe that a lot of leaders do also love when...

folks see a problem or maybe there's something that could be better, not just only raising their hand to say I'll do this, but like, you you take it on, you develop something, you raise your hand and say hey, this is a thing that I've observed. And I actually have a plan. I came up with a solution that I think would be great. Just wanting to run it by you. I'm going to be proactive on it, right? Yeah, it's really important that you are advocating for yourself.

Caroline Esterson (10:22)
Love that. Have a plan.

Jocelyn (10:28)
And then the other thing too is, I never really understood.

what it meant to have somebody who really can build that executive presence for you. So it's not just only thinking about...

how am I going to get my work to be seen, but really more about who are the stakeholders that are, helping me be seen? You need those people in your career, So I really tried to do that for others as well, just because I think to myself, as a leader, in my role, even if I work with you on just one project.

I want to make sure you get the credit for it. I don't want it to be where it's I did that project. I did these things. No, I really try to make sure that I don't simplify it so much that I say a team built something when in reality, yes, the team does deserve credit, but.

There are also individual stakeholders who really own that project. Please give them the credit, let them know, put their name out there, I also love that now as a manager, something that I really try to do is yes, I can present everything for the team always, to the executives myself, but instead I always say to them how comfortable are you presenting your own work?

to this person. And if they're not comfortable with it, my answer isn't great, then I'll take it and I'll present it for you. I ask them, how do I make you comfortable enough to present on your own behalf instead of me doing it? And sometimes it's just that they're not comfortable with public speaking. Maybe they don't feel as prepared. Maybe it's their first time presenting to somebody who is like,

Caroline Esterson (11:42)
⁓ no.

Yeah,

lack of experience.

Jocelyn (12:04)
Exactly. So what I do is I actually spend time coaching people on how they can handle their talk track for that. I walk through hey, listen, love the deck. looks really fantastic. Let's let's figure out how do we make this talk track tighter for you. Let's focus on the right things that matter for this specific audience. You know, always willing to extend my time to hear them actually practice. And then on the day of, I like tell them, let me give a little introduction and then I'm going to take a step back and be here as your support system.

but you're the star of the show, And if you need help, I'm right here on the call with you and I'll jump in and make sure things are included. But my goal is not that I speak for your own work. I want people to hear from you. And I think that's so important at this point. So that's something that

I feel like also has happened to me in the past where somebody else has presented my project kind of as like the team project or their own early on when I was just starting my career and I didn't realize how important it was for me to actually be in that room presenting on my own behalf, right? And you know the project best too. That's what I always say. was like, can someone do what your work justification more than you can? No.

so I really try to make sure that's like something I personally provide for my team now. and I really encourage anyone who is in their career, no matter what level it is, make sure you that, share with your manager, ask whoever it's can I actually present that? I would love that opportunity and see how they respond to that. And maybe it's that they never even thought that you'd be interested or open to it. And now you get that chance and it's a great way to build executive presence.

Caroline Esterson (13:30)
Yeah.

Jocelyn (13:35)
I love giving people opportunity and public speaking is not everyone's comfort. I think it's actually like the number one fear. Right. I remember there was like a fun quote. So

I think any chance that someone wants to do public speaking, any chance that someone's you know what, I would like to build up that skill, give them a shot, have faith in them, believe in them, ⁓ and coach them through it. I feel like if that is an opportunity that we have as leaders or as a manager, that alone is something that makes me feel very fulfilled. Just seeing the success of is.

Caroline Esterson (14:04)
It's your job, isn't it? It's actually

your job as a leader to grow your team because that's how you get the performance that you need.

Jocelyn (14:13)
I think so.

think that I think you're very right on that. ⁓ It's sometimes wild to think that these aren't things that people think about, right? And it's important, right? It's very, very important. And when you do have a great manager in place, it really does help you grow the most. And I think it's really important to have that in your in your career, right? And ⁓

Caroline Esterson (14:16)
Yeah.

Bye.

Jocelyn (14:33)
You go through many managers. Some managers are fantastic in different ways and I do think that when you have a manager who you feel very comfortable with, somebody who you can share knowledge with, information on, have these open conversations, a manager who's wanting to carve out opportunities for you, take advantage of it. It's one of those things where

Caroline Esterson (14:53)
Absolutely.

Jocelyn (14:55)
you have to be you know what, this is my time. And my manager is so amazing to be able to do that for me. I'm going to take every opportunity that this manager can give me and I'm going to like run with it and also make them proud too, right?

Caroline Esterson (15:06)
comes it comes back doesn't it to you said right at the start about being prepared to ask questions. If you if your managers giving you the opportunity, make sure you're asking the right questions so that you're prepared for it and can do it.

Caroline Esterson (15:19)
Before we finish, I want to go somewhere more personal. Jocelyn, you mentioned earlier that someone pointed out you'd accomplished all of this in less than a year since coming back from maternity leave. And your response was, wait, what? So let's go there. What was it actually like going on leave from a high profile, always on roll, and then coming back to it?

Jocelyn (15:42)
Yeah,

I absolutely love this question, by the way, just because I don't think it's talked enough about what does it feel like to be a working a working mom or working parent? It's tough.

Caroline Esterson (15:52)
Yeah.

Jocelyn (15:54)
was at my company for I want to say about like about two plus years at that point. And, I was not a mom.

I was really dedicated to being able to spend a lot of time on focusing on my career myself and then becoming a mom after, going on maternity leave. I was very, very fortunate where, I did get promoted to VP during that time while I was, on maternity leave and then becoming a new mom. So I always told myself, I. Exactly. So.

Caroline Esterson (16:21)
you went back into a new role basically.

Jocelyn (16:26)
I got two title changes, basically, to vice president and then also a mom, which I love both for and I'm very proud of myself for. But exactly like you said, it was like, I came back not only to one change, but to two changes. And then also the expectation of what are you delivering in your new role became a whole thing that I had to balance, right? I started feeling a lot of questions around

Caroline Esterson (16:32)
you

Jocelyn (16:53)
How do I juggle

If I spend too much time here, does it affect here? Am I going to be not capable of performing as well because of me being a new mom? I'm adapting and understanding what that role means for me because it's something so new and it's not just about my own time anymore. It's about my time with my family. It's about time with my kid. ⁓

wasn't the easiest transition back. I would say the first year, yeah.

Caroline Esterson (17:25)
And sorry, sorry, sorry

to interrupt, Jocelyn, but it's, it's juggling that

practically, but it's also juggling the balance emotionally, isn't it? Because if you're, if you're over-emphasizing one side, you feel guilty over here. And if you're over-emphasizing that, you feel guilty over there. So you're struggling to get all of those emotions in check as well, when actually your hormones are all changing too.

Jocelyn (17:35)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

my goodness, yep, it's-

Caroline Esterson (17:54)
You

Jocelyn (17:55)
It's a fun journey, would say. Fun journey,

for sure. ⁓ But no, it's exactly like that. It's so many things coming together and a lot of those things are invisible. That's the worst part, right? Like you can't, unless you sit here and actively share all of these feelings and emotions and things that you're experiencing, no one's going to know.

and so sometimes that's the toughest part because maybe at one point in your career you were operating at this level and it's not that you can't operate at this level. It's just that there's other things that you need to juggle now, right? And like that decision here becomes really, really important. So it's wild because I've met so many other working moms who are just like, I feel so concerned that I'm not going to perform as well in my role anymore now that I'm a mom and

that is also where it becomes kind of this mindset of need to over, course correct and like achieve something even more in order for me to be like, I am, you I can do it, you know? And that's such a difficult mindset to bring onto yourself because you constantly feel like I need to catch up, I need to catch up. So

Caroline Esterson (18:56)
Yeah.

Jocelyn (19:09)
had many times where I did feel a little like, you know, what?

Am I able to complete this? How am I feeling about, being a new mom and going back into the career side of things? I think one thing that made me a lot stronger was that because my time was much more limited and not in a bad way, kind of limited. I was much more protective of my time. And you should be even before you should be very protective of your time.

Caroline Esterson (19:37)
Absolutely.

Jocelyn (19:40)
It made me look at everything that I was working on and I said, what are the most important things that I need to be spending my time on? Because before maybe I said yes to a lot of things. And it's not that I'm gonna say no to everything now, but it's more that you just can't accomplish this and be successful and also produce your best work, right?

That was really, really, really important. So it took a lot of me sitting down, evaluating all those things. Your team, if you are managing a team, of course, or you're working with anyone, this is also a really great opportunity to see who else can maybe take on some of the ownership that I was doing before. And maybe it's a great opportunity for them to step up into their career as well. So you didn't have to be a part of everything and own everything, right? And you don't want to be a bottleneck either. So I started being you know what?

I don't need to give final approvals on this because I trust that someone on my team who I've built a really great relationship with, who I've also worked very closely with, I think they can also handle making that decision without me. So great, let's have them focus on this and let me focus on these things. It was the only... I mean, I hope so. I don't know.

Caroline Esterson (20:48)
I bet they love you for that as well.

I shall ask them. Send out survey following this.

Jocelyn (21:01)
But

yeah, so I was, you know, it was a lot of that and you have to be smart about your time and smart about your decision. And it's tough, right? And I will always.

always be proud of what I've accomplished. ⁓ But being a mom for me is also a very big accomplishment as well. So it's one of those things where I will always try to make sure that I can balance both. It's tough during times. If you're coming up against a large initiative or launch or maybe there's something happening, you do sometimes have to kind of pick and choose where you're spending a little bit more of your time during that period. And you have resources, you have a team, you have people

that you can rely on. think being very transparent about that is really key as well. And I think the one thing you have to remind yourself is...

Because you're saying no, or because you are challenging something, or maybe because you're producing work that is really good and it's not maybe at the same level as you thought you were producing before, it doesn't make you not qualified for what you're doing. It doesn't make you weak. doesn't make you somebody who can't or isn't capable of accomplishing big things. You absolutely can. I think just shifting how you view.

what you do is really, really important there. And I, it was something that I had to tell myself a lot, right? Like, I think I'm so used to being a perfectionist and producing like 100 plus percent all the time. And quickly I was like, is 100 plus percent really needed for every item, right? Or should I putting 100 plus percent only on specific initiatives that are need that from me and other ones that I should, you know,

move a little bit quicker on because I can and it's still great, it's still good 100 % you don't need to dedicate full attention to every single little item that you do and you also eliminate the need of

Focusing too much on task and thinking about again back to what we talked about that bigger picture of why am I doing this? Like what is this going to drive? What is this going to do? And how is this helping things, you know become stronger bigger and better? one year of being a mom no over one year at this point, but

It's been a very good challenge. It's been one of the biggest growth opportunities for myself, but in the best way possible. And I also think that if you have other coworkers or other friends who are working moms as well, talk to each other, don't be shy to share things. I love that now we live in a world where people are much more real and much more vulnerable in sharing things because

the perfect picture of, you know, being that leader mom, you know, it was like, nothing could break you and you were always performing at the top of every single little thing. Not realistic at all, And if that's the picture that keeps getting painted, it becomes very difficult for anyone to feel I'm doing a great job. So I love when people can share those weaknesses. I love when people are saying like, you know what?

Caroline Esterson (23:46)
invincibility.

Jocelyn (24:01)
It was tough, my kid was sick today and I had to do a presentation and I also have to launch something tomorrow. It was one of the difficult weeks for me. That's totally okay. You know, and I love sharing that vulnerability with people because, things can't be just face value perfect, right? And it's not.

Caroline Esterson (24:18)
Absolutely.

And I think you've really reminded me of something that I had to tell myself because I really struggled with this. There's a difference between capability and capacity.

Jocelyn (24:30)
100%.

Caroline Esterson (24:31)
And I think that what we do because we are trying to do so much and we're so used to being the problem solvers that we mix up the two and we make both of them about capability. And that's when the little voice starts chirping away. Capacity is the only thing that is affected by being a new mom. Your capability is still absolutely there. And if anything else you've got more opportunity

Jocelyn (24:45)
Mm.

a hundred

Caroline Esterson (25:01)
to thrive on the capability front because your brain is firing in a different way and you're learning new things and you're stretching and and growing. Capacity, you rightly said, can be filtered. You can work that out with your team, how you do it. And invariably it's about developing stronger boundaries. And if you're bound, you're a better leader. So actually I think the whole thing, if you're prepared to look at it objectively and tackle it well, it's a real positive.

Jocelyn (25:21)
Mm-hmm.

Caroline Esterson (25:31)
for you actually because we don't we're not as disciplined when we have the luxury of time.

Jocelyn (25:33)
No, it really is. A hundred percent.

No, it's so true, right? I love what you just said right there. I think it was the best way to ⁓ summarize what we were talking about. you're so right, right? You, again, just having that time to think about what is the most important things that you need to focus on.

Caroline Esterson (25:48)
Brilliant.

Jocelyn (26:02)
is key and we don't really do that reflection enough when we're so busy so I think sometimes stepping away and having that moment to reflect and think a little bit more clear when you're not in literally just go go go mode it changes everything for you and

it does make you stronger. makes you stronger. It makes you work smarter. And I think it's good for anyone, right? not even just, being a mom or working. Anyone should be thinking and taking some time to think why did I just work on 50 things? And did I need to work on 50 things? Or could I have done less and like focused and dedicated more of my time and effort to

Caroline Esterson (26:29)
No, absolutely.

Jocelyn (26:43)
20 things or 10, maybe 20 is too much, but 10 things. And this is where it really matters, right? And the other stuff was just nice to have. And once you learn that and you're able to apply that, you become much more successful in anything that you do.

Caroline Esterson (26:45)
Yeah.

to sum up what you've been saying, Jocelyn, I think it forces you to have a rigor about your problem solving and your decision making. And that is a really positive thing. Use it, use it wisely.

as we come to the end, Jocelyn,

to give

advice to your younger self in helping them get a foot on a career ladder, what would you say?

Jocelyn (27:21)
I would say, just being curious, ask those questions, you know, to anyone. Don't be scared to ask questions to anyone, right? that it's the best thing you can do for yourself. The second part of this is your ideas are what makes you unique. leverage that.

take advantage of your own ideas, take advantage of that, right? Like get to know yourself the most. And I love that, right? And I think that's where you shine and you can really just develop into the person that you really want to be. I think those ideas are so key. And then I think the last part about this is have fun. Ugh, I always get that right.

Caroline Esterson (27:57)
Yes, please!

Jocelyn (28:00)
I always go down this path of you need to do this, this and this and then I forget to have a good time while I'm doing it, right? And then time just passes. Don't take everything too seriously.

Caroline Esterson (28:08)
and celebrate

the wins, celebrate the moments. ⁓

Jocelyn (28:11)
Yeah,

celebrate those wins. Really think about, all the great moments that got you to where you are today. And don't be shy about it. I feel sometimes we're so I don't like talking about myself, or I don't like call out my own accomplishment. Why not? You know what I mean? I feel we should, write it down. Or I joke with my team, I make this thing called a brag folder for myself. that was one thing I did when I was... yeah.

Caroline Esterson (28:34)
Well, I've got one. We've got we've got a small

file. Yeah. Oh.

Jocelyn (28:37)
It's the best moment because some of

them those down days you're like Let me open up and look at the fact that all these great things that I've accomplished It's a great reminder and it's It's one of those things where it makes you realize I am very capable and I am very strong and I have all these great moments there's gonna be moments where things aren't that great and that's okay, but you have those

Caroline Esterson (28:47)
the right.

Jocelyn (28:58)
big moments where you're like, I'm so proud of this. Whether it's a small win, medium win, big win, we have to celebrate it. So I think just make it fun. Because if you don't have a good time while you're going down this journey, then what are we doing,

Caroline Esterson (29:11)
We're

at work too long, aren't we, not to enjoy what we're doing and have fun with our

Caroline Esterson (29:17)
Well, what did you make of Jocelyn's story

than a year back from maternity leave, a company rebrand, a commercial shot in a subway station in Georgia, a new AI product,

promotion to VP. When someone pointed all of that out to her, she said, wait, what? That right there. That is the woman this show's for.

on Wednesday, I'm bringing you the science behind two things. Justin said that I think will change how you see yourself. And on Friday, it's her song. Trust me on this one. But before then, one ask if you heard something in this conversation that sounded like someone, you know, a colleague, a friend, a woman on your team who is quietly holding everything up and hasn't quite noticed.

send it to her. She doesn't have to stay in the wait what moments.

I'm Caroline Esterson. This is Little Moves, Big Careers. See you Wednesday. And in the meantime, remember, make your move, even if it's tiny, especially if it's tiny.